Author Topic: Hero's that need a buff  (Read 891 times)

Offline Tuna

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Hero's that need a buff
« on: January 10, 2022, 12:07:49 AM »
Golem: Seems ok start to very early mid. Absolutely worthless end game. Dunno what the solution is. Maybe a lot more armor and some more damage from the stun?




Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2022, 02:41:44 PM »
maybe a slight rework to golem perhaps.. could make his eye beams more relvant later on.. or give his armor boosting ability more damage to his eye beams..so he can auto attack with his colous attack or perhaps more colosus range as well.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 02:42:20 PM by Incinerate »

Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 03:41:45 AM »
I put in a buff to golem stone skin. Have a look at it

Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2022, 02:17:11 AM »
Definitely changed the way he is to play, though I only got to test him against a full AI lobby...
 
Have yet to see or use him in a normal game. Darn random pick games...

Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2022, 03:11:22 AM »
Yea it can be tough to get a hero u wanna play if it's all random .  Is there any other heros u want me to look at ?


Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2022, 05:26:07 AM »
Still have yet to get Golem...

Serebil: I think he needs a damage scale for lift. probably  +50, 75, 100, 150, 175, 200 to current damage amount. His ult can be big, but is rare to see happen.
Entire game he is mildly useless.

Cattle: I was reading your suggestion in one of the other threads, but having to farm 1 kill at a time is rough. Specially with the mana cost.
If you get behind or way behind with cattle you can't catch up. Maybe give his hunter missile AOE from the start. Small aoe at lvl1 and a slightly bigger aoe then now at lvl6.

Dont laugh but...
Sheep: He is useless in a experienced lobby. Played if bored by people. If they fail to get a good sheepfall at start they quit.
I'd say reduce him to 2 inventory slots and give him normalish hp gains with levels.




Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2022, 05:15:35 AM »
For serbii I gave a buff to later levels on forcefields let me know if she better .. could raise the damage a lil on slam ya .. or make the ulti regen energy faster .so ur always spamming it


For cattle I think one should focus on the miss bomb I forget it's name but if in early mass and not much aoe on team.. going th
at early will help alot .   I'd probably even delay the ulti a bit. Could do level 5 for aoe as well for seeker if it isn't doing that already?

For sheep I def don't wanna normalize his stats but I think I have a solution to get sheep more viable in experienced lobby.. I'll give a merc a new ability soon .it sjould help sheep out .. as it did in footies
« Last Edit: January 18, 2022, 05:23:46 AM by Incinerate »

Offline Raptor

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2022, 12:24:19 AM »
Linch, nitro, tychus to fuck ahead versus meal heroes....

Colosus i believe it is ok with the changes you make, but give cebereti a little more damage for his z.  Dehaka is hard to manage, give a little more damage to his wolves, templar increase a little the range of damage of his z.   Nova now sucks...it is little hard to use his ghost.  Paladin, sucks too, he only got armor and heal.  Ifyou wana heal you get a raven...

Offline Raptor

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2022, 12:30:54 AM »
Check Linch hero, she got very fuck good special, and she us his z very fast and make a splash damage....When lobby pick heroes, 8 of 12 are linchs picks.

Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2022, 05:24:47 AM »
Going to try and translate Raptors post... o.O

I think he is referring to the way  lich, tycus, nitro have good poke. AKA the ability to farm money early on and throughout the game. A lot of heros just
flat out suck at killing units with no real boon/bonus/buff to account for their weakness.

Serebil still has no ability to do this until he gets to his ult. With the ult you have some ability to farm money. LVL 1 ult is meh... Its easy to botch
due to the micro or losing selection on the hero., dunno if that is fixable. Disabling unselect on him while he is ulting would help him tons.
He is hard to get ahead with so its difficult to achieve hero kills via walls or with lift traps.

Same with golem to some extent. Late game he still gets slaughtered when you use his ult. Have yet to play the new version, but see nobody
wrecking teams with him.

Ava was interesting to play. However his attack damage needs to scale as he levels. He can't kill troops or heros after about 10-15 minutes of gameplay.
Everything else is a slow burn and its pretty easy to avoid, just don't attack him.

Nova: Several issues with her. Ghost short cut/hot keys don't match the standard z x c v layout so it creates some weird issues of getting lost on the keyboard.
Ultimately though the big problem is that you spend all your time microing the ghosts in order to be useful with them. Which makes it impossible/hard to
play the hero and or use your army. Its too much stuff to manage. Having them auto snipe attack with a longer timer would be better. Or least I would prefer that
option :P

Cool to see the new stuff

Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2022, 06:31:04 AM »
Sure some good points

I've been So busy with new content I haven't really had much time to look at some og heros .. but I will start doing it soon ..I have another hero coming in really soon too.


For serebi.. how about if I make graviton slam autocast ... So like when u do the ultimate u can turn on autocast.
Thinking of remaking something on her to make her more spicey .

Ava has a certain playstyle that I don't think players have figured out as yet ... But I have an item recipe coming in soon that is geared towards late game with Ava and other herosz.
For nova I could do the auto snipes np .. I'll have to mess around with the balance a lil though on it
-@ raptor dehaka .. I'll consider giving them summons a new ability or just more summons late game ..
- what wrong with paladin and templar ?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 06:33:46 AM by Incinerate »

Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2022, 07:58:52 AM »
Autocast serebi would be odd and make it like you aren't really playing the hero:P

How bout a really really small aoe on gravelift that would lift 2-3 units at level 1 and would slightly scale as its leveled up? That would give him a
nice tiny boost at level 1 and carry throughout. So it would be more like he is reversing gravity in a small area that launches units up.

Ava was actually fun...
Early part of the game I bitch slapped a few people to death and could farm off footies and t1 units before hp upgrades.
If his bitch slap of doom scaled as he leveled he would induce a lot of laughing...
After that it was a weird slow churn. He was fun to toss into the center of 2 teams going at it in a base, but there if they were smart they would of just
walked away from him.

I was going to suggest maybe pulling in some WC3 heros. Druid guy with tranquility and the single target thorns that rooted. Also the undead guy
who can sleep a target.

Offline Raptor

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2022, 05:25:16 PM »
Tuna you right 100%.  That is what I was trying to say. About linch this is a very unbalance hero.  Nitro a kind of too but no so much as linch.

Offline Raptor

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2022, 05:47:00 PM »
Incinerate, Paladin use to be decent hero, but you nerfed him 2 times.  First you decrease his c armor rating and then you decrease too much his special.   His special level 1 got 2 marines and 2 marauders.   By the time you get level 6 most players got 50 stalkers or 50 roaches or 50 marauders.

Templar is good hero but need to make a little more damage.  Remember he is hard hero to manage.  When he uses his z, he need to get close to enemy units, so we have to micro him. Sometimes he die doing that.  Besides, at first levels his x do nothing.

One important point that you have to take into account is that: now there are extra free summons units and free extra money in the middle of the map.  They are great ideas. 

But because of those extra resources players upgrade  faster their units.  So, those heroes summons units are a little short. 

But there are exceptions.  Farsee, later units are very good, but not his first levels units. The Queen summons units are fuck good at higher levels, but not at the beginning.
One solution is to increase to 3 at the first levels so those heroes has and opportunity versus range heroes.

For nitro and linch you can increase the energy it takes to use his z.

Offline 1b2a

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2022, 11:09:13 PM »
Templar, strong af with the new farms. Pretty much all heroes are broken late game

Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2022, 05:33:47 AM »
I'll put out some patch notes soon of what I'm doing for those hero. Got some ideas for serebi etc




Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2022, 09:21:15 PM »
Ava,

He/she/it is big. Since he is soo big armor should not help reduce the damage he does. Just my weird logic...
Also his attack damage needs to scale with level...

taunt is nice, but it doesn't work. Needs to have a duration that locks target on him.

Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2022, 08:45:24 AM »
I hear ya on the attack damage perhaps scaling with level , but it starts off really high to begin with . But perhaps I could make armor affect his attack less ( like 1/2) .
He's meant to be almost exactly the same as I remember him from war3 footies . Which is a beastly tank.    He has a strict way of playing him else u fall behind .. but I believe he's a pretty good hero .  What are ur thoughts ?  I know u mentioned the attack and I think I might do that armor thing but other than that .. he seems good ?

Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2022, 01:12:04 PM »
First 5 minutes of a game Ava is a blast...

You can actually get hero kills and a lot of them. My most recent game with him I was cracking up
laughing due to all the bitch slap kills... However if you aren't lucky enough to land a few, you are basically
screwed and not catching up. I've had that game to... You are forced to buy a lot of speed scrolls and scepters.

Any armor, evade or agi on a hero basically makes it very hard to get em. 400+ damage or whatever it is, isn't that much when heros
have 3-4k at final level. Normal Hp plus items. Can't recall who was playing chuck, but they had no armor items and a couple
of spades and I couldn't do more then 100 hp of damage to him. It was odd...Lurking with a big giant hero waiting to snipe is weird.
Sometimes fun, but weird. Its like play a derpy blade. Or being derpy with blade.

Big giant stone first shouldn't be negatable.. Cept maybe by a giant stone face. Little Ava on Ava slapping...

525 hp footmen isn't killable with a single attack. So you get to kill 1 footman ever minute. Problem just gets worse the higher
tier stuff gets. Obviously he has good buffs for units, but every game I get him. I play him and my team leaves...

Its hard to gauge him being a tank when the smart players just ignore him. Or drop a heal and then kill him.

Taunt doesn't work. Slightly false statement. My last game with it, taunt would make stuff attack avalanche, but all the player had to
do was tell his stuff to move or attack something else. It really needs a taunted duration timer to keep stuff attacking him for "x" amount
of time. Probably something based on level.

His buffs are probably great for units, but I never have a team to really see it offensively and I am stuck defending solo from the usual rapists
feeding off me:P

I have yet to play golem...
I played Seri and still hate him:P Sorry, least favorite character in the game. He seemed slightly better, my team was getting raped.

Need a hero in the game with sleep and AO sleep to counter the unkillable ares, dark templar and nutso hero builds...

Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2022, 01:22:08 AM »
Are u having issues with those heroes? Should I look into them for possible nerfs?

For ava I recommend a hero build of perhaps poor man's immolation cloak or infernal cloak  and speed shoes . Then tech up and get some strong units . Ava should be played very aggressively ..  the taunt isn't meant to be like a strong skill but if ppl don't micro against him then ya taunt has some uses .   Ava is a strong early/ mid game hero and In late game can turn into a support role . I'm seeing ppl get all kinda crazy stuff on him he doesn't need .. that is a waste. Those 2 items I mentioned is the most I'd get for him .. the rest into tech.

Offline Tuna

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2022, 04:28:46 PM »
"Are u having issues with those heroes? Should I look into them for possible nerfs?"

Everyone has problems with those hero's. It's often very game/team specific and different each time. Ares, tass, dark templar, blade and monta.
Probably forgetting someone. If a player/team gets ahead with one or multiple of those hero's its rough or nearly impossible to stop. I have tons
of fun abusing people with monta and blade.

I've had/seen games when they are shut down easy and other games where they just are unstop able because they are so far ahead and it is
essentially impossible to catch up. Sleep rod is expensive.

Not sure what the real fix is, other then maybe some kind of cap on stats. Or a lower one.

I was in part just suggesting more heros to get more heros with different play options:P There's a bunch of WC3 heros that would be nice to have.
The druid guy with strong aoe heal ult and snare/root. Undead guy with sleep.

What is kinda missing from ZF, or perhaps its more missing from the player base. Is chosing heros to form a solid team comp. Sorta what you get
with the 5v5 games in league. Different discussion:P

Gold rush:
I think is part of the reason some of these players/teams can plow way ahead. Sounding like a broken record, but it does favor the team
that is ahead. Granted they could do this before feeding off the weak, but it just adds to the problem.

It might be more interesting if the gold rush bubble spawned inside the teams bases. However you can't get the gold from your teams bases bubble
and have to go to another teams bubble. It would still encourage fighting. At least in that situation a weak team could use their canon for D.


Ava
That's how i play ava, but you sorta have to get the imm cloak first and it means sacrificing a tier up on units. So you are playing somewhat of a
catchup. I usually don't have a team to help support cause they quit when they see ava being played:P




Offline Incinerate

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Re: Hero's that need a buff
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2022, 10:02:27 PM »
In a perfect zealot frenzy world I wouldn't put in gold rush or zerg drops but I do believe it is a nessessary evil .. otherwise ppl sit in their base and literally do nothing .  The ones going out are punished . If ppl played optimally .. nobody would leave base until someone does so ,and that is exactly how pros best the noobs .. they wait for them to mess up and take all the feed and expand on that .

Without incentive to go middle.. it's a game of chicken. I rather give reason to come mid than none at all .  Warcraft 3 had this issue as well for the melee part of there game ... And then they put in creep camps.. to force ppl to fight over the creeps or fall behind . Literally the entire concept of the game depends on who can farm the creep camps better and thus get an advantage for an otherwise stale mate .

I think it is okay if some ppl fall behind in gold rush . Not everyone can win .

Gold rush rewards are pretty low as well.. but it's decent .. just decent enough to cause ppl to fight over it .. which is good .. but if u look at the actual gold it gives .. u need alot of units in it for a while to give like 500 gold . Teams that are ahead can be sceptered an aoed brutally to reduce it a bit .
« Last Edit: February 10, 2022, 10:05:37 PM by Incinerate »